Advice on lines in bowl

Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Sat May 28, 2016 3:11 pm

Hello all, I'm off to Barcelona next week and will have the lend of a board down there. I will be skating Mara Bella skatepark and want to try and make the most of as much of it as my ability allows but I've never managed to do very much in a bowl apart from going over and back in a manner that means I might just as well be on a half pipe. I'm not terribly clear on what is a good line to take and what isn't. And the horizontal pump coming into and out of corners etc. not entirely clear on that either.

My best bit of bowl riding to date was at Watlington bowl yesterday on a borrowed longboard, managed to get around it a few times each run before losing my speed. Will be on a popsicle in Spain.

Any advice more than welcome.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby irishlostboy » Sat May 28, 2016 4:11 pm

Think surfing. Don't go up through the corner, go across the corner. My laptop cannot edit video or I would do some bowl basics examples. I am not great, but pretty comfortable in corners. The surfing really helps. Most skaters I see in parks these days avoid he bowls like it has plague.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Brian S » Sat May 28, 2016 4:16 pm

Also loosen your trucks a little, you need to be able to turn around the corners
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Nut » Sat May 28, 2016 6:21 pm

+1 for loose trucks. Speed is key, as is momentum; You need to route those forces through your knees and out through your trucks, you probably know this bit as you can pump between two walls.

It's a good idea to get on a wall or corner or hip as soon as you can after dropping in [from start]. A long run-in to the first turn is all very well for lining up but you will have lost a %age of your speed which might be hard to get back until you find some speed boosting lines of your own.

For a pair of square or bowled corners [0.07], you don't have to try and hack through both corners and the flat wall in between. You'll perhaps feel you have 'just' enough speed to get through both but then find you're trundling out instead of charging and looking for the next wall. Solution: halve it [0.16], go extra aggressive on the turn out and simply cut the other corner out. eta This means you can use all your speed to get high up and carry more speed through to the next wall.



This one is the corners I didn't hit in the first vid, 'hacking through' AND halving the deep end.



I'll try and film something tomorrow to illustrate it better. It's one of those 'oh' things where you'll go "oh, it's just that, I can do that" :)
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Brad Brains » Sat May 28, 2016 6:37 pm

One thing different in a bowl vs half pipe is the angle that you approach the coping. Go into the transition at a mellow angle, not straight into it. Also, use the corners, or pockets, to pump and gain momentum. One piece of advice that stuck with me was "keep your knees bent and your balls over your board".

Hopefully that makes sense; I'm on my first cup of coffee.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Sat May 28, 2016 9:58 pm

Thanks for that guys, Nut, videos look good.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby GoR64 » Sat May 28, 2016 10:11 pm

Hit the nearest wall you can.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby duck » Sat May 28, 2016 10:36 pm

Something I've been chipping away at over the last few months is a video about the physics of pumping - starting with pumping over flat ground obstacles and then moving on to bowls and showing the relationship between the two.

What is interesting is that the physics of pumping in a bowl can be translated to the same physics of pumping over flat-ground shapes - the difference being that your arced path around a bowl changes which way is "down" from your local point of view. For example going over a hip is kind of equivalent to going over a raised hump on flat ground - it's just that because you're already moving in a curve, which way is 'down' for you is altered by centrifugal force. And going around a squared-corner in a bowl is the equivalent of going across a 'dip' on flat ground.

If you recognise the different parts of a bowl as different styles of obstacle then you can work out the correct way to extract speed from each one.

For example, with a hip, the way you use it to increase speed is a two-step process, and is similar to the way you can gain speed from going over a rounded hump on flat ground.

1) approaching the hip, you allow your central body mass to maintain a relatively straight trajectory - or even better, pre-emptively 'raise' your body mass so that the hip doesn't have to do it for you - and allow your legs to bend taking in the board over the first half of the hip. This maximises speed by preventing the initial 'hill' part of the hip from slowing you down.

2) once you're past the apex of the hip, you can start applying pressure downwards with your legs which is naturally translated into forward momentum.

This kind of stuff is very difficult to describe in text - which is partly why I'm making a video about it (the other reason is that I am an inescapable nerd and this sort of thing ticks my boxes).

Here's a quick snippet from my footage for the video I'm making. It shows a flat ground hump and a hip, hopefully you can see the same technique is used to get speed out of both.

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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Sun May 29, 2016 12:35 pm

Thanks again guys, Duck, I particularly like the apparent gravity idea with the bowl sort of like a concave geoid. Will have to work on taking all this advice on board now!
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:43 pm

Looks like the main places I'll be skating are Mara Bella skatepark in Barcelona



and here when we go up the coast



Thanks for all the advice, have already been trying to put it into practice at Sol Joel park in Reading and feel like I've made a little bit of progress. Off out there on Sunday.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:31 pm

Here is the point I'm currently at with my bowl riding attempts.

Seems to be a few of us at the moment learning to carve in a bowl, so perhaps we should post the odd update here along with any difficulties or revelations!

[vimeo]175550102[/vimeo]



https://vimeo.com/175550102
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby irishlostboy » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:53 pm

Looking good. Looks a little stiff is all, but still Killin it. Keep it lit.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby GoR64 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:17 pm

Try to really exaggerate your movements: arse out, hip wiggle, tiptoes, flailing arms et all, then slow your movements down a bit and make them a bit more meaningful, so you're really chucking your weight around, but with the least possible effort.

Feels good ;)
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Unciano » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:56 pm

Nice work. The line you have is pretty much perfect really, you just need to carry a bit more speed into the corners and off the walls to get round quicker. Advice as above, perhaps don't crouch too early? Think loose and remember to pump up the wall as well as coming down.

For nice corners like those at sol Joel you need to get higher up on the wall BEFORE the first corner. That way you can stay high in the middle and pump through the second one nicely. There's also nothing wrong with taking the same corners from lower down to get you higher up on the wall to give you more to pump down.

Watch out for that little hip when you go round Frontside at speed, it's caught me out the last few times and sent me sprawling.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:05 pm

GoR64 wrote:Try to really exaggerate your movements: arse out, hip wiggle, tiptoes, flailing arms et all, then slow your movements down a bit and make them a bit more meaningful, so you're really chucking your weight around, but with the least possible effort.

Feels good ;)


I don't know if you are being sarcastic as my arse looks pretty stuck out already! will assume you aren't and try and get a more exaggerated video, it will either be progress or entertaining for all the wrong reasons.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:08 pm

irishlostboy wrote:Looking good. Looks a little stiff is all, but still Killin it. Keep it lit.


yes, have noticed in other videos as well as this that I am a bit stiff.. can see it with my hands, they are not loose which lends the whole thing an odd look as well as my skating suffering.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby GoR64 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:14 pm

mjlally wrote:
I don't know if you are being sarcastic as my arse looks pretty stuck out already! will assume you aren't and try and get a more exaggerated video, it will either be progress or entertaining for all the wrong reasons.

Nah man I wouldn't risk sarcasm on the internet :) Seriously exaggerate everything, and then figure out what isn't really necessary, should be left with style for miles.

It's more about exaggerating the movement as opposed to the 'position at the extent of the movement', if that makes sense, you'd only notice a stuck out arse if it stays locked when it shouldn't be!
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:16 pm

Unciano wrote:Nice work. The line you have is pretty much perfect really, you just need to carry a bit more speed into the corners and off the walls to get round quicker. Advice as above, perhaps don't crouch too early? Think loose and remember to pump up the wall as well as coming down.

For nice corners like those at sol Joel you need to get higher up on the wall BEFORE the first corner. That way you can stay high in the middle and pump through the second one nicely. There's also nothing wrong with taking the same corners from lower down to get you higher up on the wall to give you more to pump down.

Watch out for that little hip when you go round Frontside at speed, it's caught me out the last few times and sent me sprawling.


Will try and take this (including Irishlostboy and Gor64's advice) all on board and put into practice during the week. Thanks guys, appreciated.

so, loosen up, exaggerate movements, slow them down a bit to make them meaningful and functional, and don't crouch too early. And throw my weight into it. Of all these I think the loosening up will be the hardest to pin down.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:23 pm

GoR64 wrote:
mjlally wrote:
I don't know if you are being sarcastic as my arse looks pretty stuck out already! will assume you aren't and try and get a more exaggerated video, it will either be progress or entertaining for all the wrong reasons.

Nah man I wouldn't risk sarcasm on the internet :) Seriously exaggerate everything, and then figure out what isn't really necessary, should be left with style for miles.

It's more about exaggerating the movement as opposed to the 'position at the extent of the movement', if that makes sense, you'd only notice a stuck out arse if it stays locked when it shouldn't be!


I didn't really think it was, especially as everyone else pretty much agreed! I think I can relate what you are saying to surfing, been afraid of throwing my weight into the movements on concrete! Definitely noticing a stuckout arse in my video so I think I might be getting locked in that position by crouching to early and too low then now being able to extend out of it.

And yes, it does feel good!

I don't suppose you recognize the board?
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Andrew_Culture » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:28 pm

Great thread!

The pendulum affect mentioned in this article was a big help for me http://www.exploratorium.edu/skateboarding/trick04.html
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:41 pm

Andrew_Culture wrote:Great thread!

The pendulum affect mentioned in this article was a big help for me http://www.exploratorium.edu/skateboarding/trick04.html


Ta for the link.

From a physics point of view, pumping also involves conservation of angular momentum. Crouching before you hit a curved surface lowers your center of gravity closer to the curve of the transition. Angular momentum is conserved so straightening up through the curve increases your speed as you are moving your weight away from the curved surface. But it requires leg strength. So my stuck out arse is because I am squatting too low in the face of the conservation of angular momentum.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Nut » Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:59 pm

yeah, you are pretty much there, FS looking good. Front foot back an inch perhaps - and be ready to get a little lighter on your heels and toes. That's 'near the lip' arse action.

Start the corner with near straight legs, then as your board carries you upwards, draw in the energy through your knees - ending up in the position you are now. The difference will be that you will feel something to really pump downwards with. If you feel the need to do that double pump thing, you need to turn out more quickly.

When you crack the next bit you will be flying - you have the line, stability and steering.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Nut wrote:yeah, you are pretty much there, FS looking good. Front foot back an inch perhaps - and be ready to get a little lighter on your heels and toes. That's 'near the lip' arse action.

Start the corner with near straight legs, then as your board carries you upwards, draw in the energy through your knees - ending up in the position you are now. The difference will be that you will feel something to really pump downwards with. If you feel the need to do that double pump thing, you need to turn out more quickly.

When you crack the next bit you will be flying - you have the line, stability and steering.


Thanks. Have been out again today and tried to put everybody's advice into practice. I think I was getting it a bit closer to right some of the time. The one or two runs when it just felt right and I kind of slipped into a more loose/relaxed body position, I seemed to go faster, higher and for longer.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby irishlostboy » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:07 pm

I don't know if it helps or matters, but I notice I have my body twisted a little more in the direction of travel than you, and I have my back knee tucked and pointing forward a bit more. Dunno if that is because I grew up emulating 70s surf style, or if it actually does anything.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby HarryR » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:37 am

When carving frontside don't be afraid to lean back a bit, assuming you have enough speed. In theory, with enough speed the centrifugal force would allow you to stand straight on the board at a 90 degree angle to the bank you are carving around. In practice it doesn't quite happen like that because a skater will be compressed and bent over at the waist, but leaning back to keep your centre of gravity over the board will keep you more planted on the bank.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby tom.hoffman » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:26 pm

Also, once you start to feel like you are getting it -- don't look at video of yourself. You'll feel like you're 16 and killing it, but that's not going to be what you look like. So stick with the feeling!
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Andrew_Culture » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:05 pm

tom.hoffman wrote:Also, once you start to feel like you are getting it -- don't look at video of yourself. You'll feel like you're 16 and killing it, but that's not going to be what you look like. So stick with the feeling!

I

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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:27 pm

tom.hoffman wrote:Also, once you start to feel like you are getting it -- don't look at video of yourself. You'll feel like you're 16 and killing it, but that's not going to be what you look like. So stick with the feeling!


But I am 16 and killing it.. oh alright, add 30 and I'm smacking it with a soft cushion.

I know what you are saying, but was hoping I could see from the video what was going wrong on the bits where I'm not feeling it! Or that some of you guys can see what I'm doing wrong and advise as above. I'm old enough and ugly enough now not to have a very high expectation of what I look like in video or photographs! It's my wife I feel sorry for, she got me just before I started to deteriorate. I'm well chuffed with just being able to drop in to the bowl and not lose speed by the 3rd corner anymore.

I've tried to take all the advice given here on board over the last few sessions and will video again when I feel like I've made definite progress as there are things I know I need to work on now and I can feel the difference when I get it right. I'm still a long way off the point where I switch off the camera. Maybe when I can get a bit more speed and height, and perhaps do grinds.

irishlostboy wrote:I don't know if it helps or matters, but I notice I have my body twisted a little more in the direction of travel than you, and I have my back knee tucked and pointing forward a bit more. Dunno if that is because I grew up emulating 70s surf style, or if it actually does anything.


will try it and see how it goes. I had noticed the guy I skated Watlington bowl with had a similar stance to what you describe. On longboards and he had one knee very tucked behind the other with hands behind his back, definitely very surfy looking, would have been a soul arch if he'd put his hands up.

HarryR wrote:When carving frontside don't be afraid to lean back a bit, assuming you have enough speed. In theory, with enough speed the centrifugal force would allow you to stand straight on the board at a 90 degree angle to the bank you are carving around. In practice it doesn't quite happen like that because a skater will be compressed and bent over at the waist, but leaning back to keep your centre of gravity over the board will keep you more planted on the bank.


I think I might be starting to as getting faster and higher and more comfortable the last few sessions.

Thanks guys.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:43 pm

Andrew_Culture wrote:
tom.hoffman wrote:Also, once you start to feel like you are getting it -- don't look at video of yourself. You'll feel like you're 16 and killing it, but that's not going to be what you look like. So stick with the feeling!

I

Ha ha, yeS, this!


this is part of the reason I didn't submit anything in the MAS video thread, everything I have looks so slow! It isn't just that I look slow, I can follow the same line as another skater and go slower. It isn't the board or wheels because I can swap boards with the same skater and still go slower on the same line.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Brian S » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:59 pm

tom.hoffman wrote:Also, once you start to feel like you are getting it -- don't look at video of yourself. You'll feel like you're 16 and killing it, but that's not going to be what you look like. So stick with the feeling!



Yeah, I have had the feeling that I'm going at a breakneck on the edge speeds, just about living on the edge of disaster, but a video tells a very different sobering story, Pah! :lol:
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby duck » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:08 pm

I've been chipping away at a sort of nerdy pet project video examining the physics of bowl skating, pumping in particular. This thread has given me renewed interest in hurrying up with it! Hopefully when it's done it will help out with understanding the baffling phenomenon of extracting speed from static concrete surfaces :D
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby irishlostboy » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:55 pm

That actually sounds awesome, and badly needed. There are endless good vids on street and mini ramp tricks, but there is a serious lack of well explained bowl vids. There is a surprising amount added by that extra dimension of curve, and it's something I see many struggling with. Even savage skaters often shy away from the bowl corners around here. (by here I mean my location. Not this forum)
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:57 pm

duck wrote:I've been chipping away at a sort of nerdy pet project video examining the physics of bowl skating, pumping in particular. This thread has given me renewed interest in hurrying up with it! Hopefully when it's done it will help out with understanding the baffling phenomenon of extracting speed from static concrete surfaces :D


I could knock up something in matlab or python to optimize the acceleration for varying squat/straighten patterns for each trajectory over different curved surfaces.. might take a wee while but could be interesting.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Andrew_Culture » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:58 am

mjlally wrote:
duck wrote:I've been chipping away at a sort of nerdy pet project video examining the physics of bowl skating, pumping in particular. This thread has given me renewed interest in hurrying up with it! Hopefully when it's done it will help out with understanding the baffling phenomenon of extracting speed from static concrete surfaces :D


I could knock up something in matlab or python to optimize the acceleration for varying squat/straighten patterns for each trajectory over different curved surfaces.. might take a wee while but could be interesting.


This needs to happen :)
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby misterbleepy » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:44 am

This does sound very interesting - not sure I can contribute anything, but I do want to see and read what you find out :-)
I have seen some analysis and videos of park/bowl riding on that facebook thing - if you're on there, search for @Sk8labHouston and take a look.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:01 pm

misterbleepy wrote:This does sound very interesting - not sure I can contribute anything, but I do want to see and read what you find out :-)
I have seen some analysis and videos of park/bowl riding on that facebook thing - if you're on there, search for @Sk8labHouston and take a look.


will have a crack at my thing and pass it on to Duck to see if it's any good to his project. That facebook link looks interesting too.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby duck » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:27 pm

ah I hadn't seen that Sk8labHouston account - interesting stuff!
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby J_c90 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:46 pm

I've nothing to contribute to this thread. I'm useless in a bowl. I do want to get better though be it through physics, intuition or just sheer bloody-mindedness.

So yeah - would love to see some video tutes if they happen.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:03 pm

J_c90 wrote:I've nothing to contribute to this thread. I'm useless in a bowl. I do want to get better though be it through physics, intuition or just sheer bloody-mindedness.

So yeah - would love to see some video tutes if they happen.


If you are planning to learn to ride the bowl, any comments, questions, videos of progress or videos of no progress will be a great contribution. I'm learning myself as are a few others so would be great to hear how you are getting on with it.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby GoR64 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:36 pm

I've just realised I'm really shit on lines in a bowl, so either my next few posts will be full of self-loathing, or open admittance and furtherance of said fact.
We'll get there together. It is actually way harder than it looks.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:20 pm

GoR64 wrote:I've just realised I'm really shit on lines in a bowl, so either my next few posts will be full of self-loathing, or open admittance and furtherance of said fact.
We'll get there together. It is actually way harder than it looks.


I have this funny feeling that what you call being "really shit on lines in a bowl" is better than I even aspire to at the moment!
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby J_c90 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:54 pm

mjlally wrote:If you are planning to learn to ride the bowl, any comments, questions, videos of progress or videos of no progress will be a great contribution.


I mostly spend my time chucking myself around on ramp and street stuff, but the park I go to (The House in Sheffield) has a really nice bowl and I'm conscious that I'm not making the most of it. But yes, if I film any breakthroughs I'll share.

I'm already starting to regret selling a barely-used pair of indys the other day. Can see now that they would have been the basis of a decent second board set-up for bowl pursuits (wider board, looser trucks etc).
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Ben » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:33 pm

mjlally wrote:
GoR64 wrote:I've just realised I'm really shit on lines in a bowl, so either my next few posts will be full of self-loathing, or open admittance and furtherance of said fact.
We'll get there together. It is actually way harder than it looks.


I have this funny feeling that what you call being "really shit on lines in a bowl" is better than I even aspire to at the moment!


I carve bowls / pools really well but I am hopeless at most tricks. :oops:
Your video shows someone who can definitely carve . All you need to acquire is relaxation and aggression which is a strange mixture. Concentrate on hugging the walls going horizontally. There is no need to stick your arse out. It comes from the legs. Your body should nearly always be central over your board.

Think Tommy Curren or follow Omar's advice.

#


Good luck
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:07 pm

Ben wrote:
mjlally wrote:
GoR64 wrote:I've just realised I'm really shit on lines in a bowl, so either my next few posts will be full of self-loathing, or open admittance and furtherance of said fact.
We'll get there together. It is actually way harder than it looks.


I have this funny feeling that what you call being "really shit on lines in a bowl" is better than I even aspire to at the moment!


I carve bowls / pools really well but I am hopeless at most tricks. :oops:
Your video shows someone who can definitely carve . All you need to acquire is relaxation and aggression which is a strange mixture. Concentrate on hugging the walls going horizontally. There is no need to stick your arse out. It comes from the legs. Your body should nearly always be central over your board.

Think Tommy Curren or follow Omar's advice.

#


Good luck


Thanks. I could watch that Curren clip all day for the early nineties nostalgia as well as the surfing.

Off down to Cornwall tomorrow, so hopefully get a chance to skate another bowl or two over the weekend.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby duck » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:43 pm

I'm still working on my 'physics of bowl carving' video (name TBC) but in the meantime I made these diagrams which might be of interest (also following on from the discussion that emerged from the 'blood in urine thread' elsewhere on here!).

Excluding such things as hips, waterfalls, circular ends (which are different to cornered ends) and looking solely at the standard 'cornered' bowl you commonly see, there are two distinct ways of getting speed by pumping. You can use one or the other, or you can combine them for maximum speed. I'm not sure whether there's already an established name for these but I'm going to call them "perpendicular pumping" and "parallel pumping".

A lot of skaters just learn this stuff intuitively, and know it by feel, and to a certain extent that is the only way to learn it. However if you have an analytical mind you might find it helps to understand the physics behind what you're aiming for.

1) Perpendicular Pumping:
This is pumping up/down using the curve that you would see in a 'side elevation' of the transition. This is often called the transition radius and is the same as the transition radius of a half-pipe. Perpendicular pumping is exactly the same technique you would use on a half-pipe, and for this reason it's often how beginners to bowl carving start out.

There are 2 "pumps". Each pump consists of a compress & expand phase - i.e. you crouch then straighten. Crouching itself adds no speed, but allows you to straighten (expand) at the correct moment, which speeds you up.

You can see perpendicular pumping in these two diagrams - note that the actual corner isn't being used at all and you might as well be on a half-pipe:

Note that the 'tuck' always comes in anticipation of an upcoming change in curvature of the surface (either flat-to-curve, or curve-to-flat), and the 'expand' occurs *across* that change in curvature. i.e. across the change from flat to curve, or from curve to flat.

Image

Image

The reason this isn't very fast is that at the peak of each curve, you slow down to turn around and change direction.

These can be combined, to navigate the corners of a bowl, but it's being done as three separate perpendicular pumps, like this:

Image

However, you can get a lot more speed by using...

2) Parallel Pumping

This is using the *other* curve in the bowl, in a different dimension to the "transition curve". The parallel curve is what you see if you follow the line of the coping in an overhead view. And therefore if you are riding a straight-wall section of the bowl, with straight coping, you can't use parallel pumping on that section - only the corners (although you can prepare for the upcoming corner by compressing on the straight bit leading up to the corner). By using parallel pumping you can extract speed from corners without needing to change height.

Here is a line which shows *only* parallel pumping:

Image

Even though you're using a different 'dimension' of the bowl, the 'tuck' still always comes in anticipation of an upcoming change in curvature of the surface (either flat-to-curve, or curve-to-flat), and the 'expand' occurs *across* that change in curvature. i.e. across the change from flat to curve, or from curve to flat. The difference is now we're calling the start of this run (which is riding *along& the transition wall) 'flat' because you are riding along the transition parallel to the coping, so from your frame of reference it's essentially flat, and the 'curve' is now the corner.

However, it gets fun if you combine the two, so you are making use of both the transition radius (the perpendicular curve) and the corner radius (the parallel curve). This is where you get real speed combined with flexible lines to criss-cross around the bowl at will! This final example has 4 pumps shown in the line that, in sequence, are: Perpendicular (up the wall), Parallel (1st corner), Parallel (2nd corner), Perpendicular (down the wall).

Image

Hope this helps some of you more nerdy skaters out there :) And I guess this serves as another sneak peek as to what will be in my video (if I ever finish it) :D
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby irishlostboy » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:58 pm

Holy f.... Duck! That is a super well expressed breakdown of pumping through curves. Even in text Form, like here or on a blog this is very well explained and illustrated.
I think most of us learn it by feel because we have not had access to this kind of information, not because it is the best way to learn it. This level of breakdown could save skaters new to transition months of struggle.
Transition skating for so long has been just a means to get to a lip or a flip trick, and not considered actual skating. That is one of the reasons bowl skating is so fresh to me. That and the speed.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Nut » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:08 pm

:) Great post.

I'd suggest that halving the corners deserves a category to itself:

Image

It's easily overlooked in an effort to get on the full speed carving line but it holds an answer to a lack of speed. By carrying all the speed you do have up into the corner, all you have to do is turn out to enjoy a familiar pump down a flat wall. Instant speed!
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Ben » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:04 pm

I think that it is the parallel pump that many struggle with. I offered some advise at b bowl this evening to a whipper snapper to 'stay high' but I'm not sure he got it. Then again would anyone take instruction from a short sighted middle aged man in baggy blue shorts in the failing evening light?
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Ben » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:02 pm

Did you carve in Barcelona?

I found this vid from the interweb. The first section at La Kantera has some beautiful carving in it. Pure self indulgence on my part as this is the type of surf inspired skating I love to see and do (though these guys certainly put me in the shade). La Kantera looks superb. I spent quite a lot of time surfing in the Basque country in 90's and 00's but never realised there was a park there. Mr Sean Gough recently won a pool contest there.

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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby mjlally » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:03 pm

Ben wrote:Did you carve in Barcelona?

I found this vid from the interweb. The first section at La Kantera has some beautiful carving in it. Pure self indulgence on my part as this is the type of surf inspired skating I love to see and do (though these guys certainly put me in the shade). La Kantera looks superb. I spent quite a lot of time surfing in the Basque country in 90's and 00's but never realised there was a park there. Mr Sean Gough recently won a pool contest there.




I did my best to carve over there but I was just starting to get the feel for it. Doing better now. I'll be ready for it next time!

I love that video you posted.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby Ben » Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:06 pm



Another beautiful example of how to do it by one of our brethren.
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Re: Advice on lines in bowl

Postby duck » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:14 am

Ben wrote:Another beautiful example of how to do it by one of our brethren.


I love Nut's style of carving! so casual. I feel like I end up putting in 4x the effort to go the same speed :D
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