bushings question

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bushings question

Postby andy turner » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:17 pm

Sorry I don't usually get into details like this. But what are the benefits/ disadvantages of running flat washers, or bushing cups, or conical or barrel bushings? My brain tells me to run conical bushings 'road side' with a cup washer, as that's what I've always run on my usual boards, but longboards are a whole different ball game.
I basically want my set up to be nice and controlled, due to my size I run my trucks quite tight as my weight will compensate when carving and as I am fairly new to downhill I don't want it too loose and getting away from me. I had my Holeys set up with Holey 95a bushings and a cup washer but I'm trying out a set of Sabres out that Bigwavedave has kindly lent me (wanted something wider so its a try before you buy opportunity) and I'm not sure what direction to go with the bushings. Would the Holey bushings work ok? I have ordered some Venom 93a tall bushings with the conical top as well to see what they are like. I don't want to be sitting there changing bushes trying to get the right set up, especially withh it being the Hog Hill event this weekend so was wondering what sort of advice people could give me.
Thanks in advance
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Re: bushings question

Postby JamesC » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:34 pm

Heres my understanding

Cup washers hold the bushing in place more and prevent too much deformation when turning. This has the effect of increasing the turning cricle but has better stability.

Flat washers allow the bushing to deform more meaning that you can lean the truck over more with a tighter turning circle.

With conicals roadside I always use flat washers as I want greater turning. I run barrels board side for stability sometimes with flat and sometimes with cup washers. It's a matter of trial and error to what suits you best. Also I run the bushingl board side slightly harder than the bushing road side. I feel it gives me better stability and turning at the same time.

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Re: bushings question

Postby andy turner » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:35 pm

Cheers for that, much rather know what should work before throwing myself down a hill and finding out!
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Re: bushings question

Postby Eric Driver » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:41 pm

Bushings are great fun. :?
It's a toss up between rebound and turn - both are good but getting the perfect balance is the key.
Flat washers or inverted cups will allow the bushing more sideways movement.
Cones will squish easier than barrels.
Double barrels are great.
A lot depends on how long your kingpins are, but I think the more bushing you can fit on, the better.
Just don't tighten them down! If you feel you're having to crank down on the kingpin for stability it's going to be better to go up on the duro instead. A cranked down bushing has a lot of potential wobble-energy stored up, better to have a harder bushing and run it loose, imo - you get better feedback and more stability than a softer bushing cranked down so it can't move so much because it's under pressure.
Holey bushings are designed for Holeys and don't work so well in other trucks- tho' some folk put them in Bennetts.
Sabre bushings are great, but they need to be run-in. Cones are very very turny, green and purple barrels are great for a deep reboundy turn.
I think a cone boardside and a barrel roadside is a common set-up for slalom and pumping - the cone allows a very deep turn and the roadside barrel gives fast rebound.
You can tweak forever, but Sabres are as good as you can get in Sabres or Randals and Holeys are all you want in Holeys... so you just have the colours to choose, depending on how much you weigh and how you ride. Holey bushings won't work on Sabre trucks. I'd try green Sabres boardside and purple Sabres roadside.
Ah, that's enough from me about bushings. :roll:
Last edited by Eric Driver on Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: bushings question

Postby JamesC » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:44 pm

I'm no expert by a mile but I'd run both barrels with a hard board side and a slightly softer road side. This might help you.

Image

Choose the correct bushings: The guide below is intended to help you choose the correct bushings for your size and body weight.

50-100lbs 73-80a Duro
75-125lbs 78-82a Duro
100-145lbs 80-85a Duro
125-175lbs 80-87a Duro
145-195lbs 82-90a Duro
175-220lbs 85-93a Duro
200-250lbs 90-93a Duro
225lbs + 90-98a Duro
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Re: bushings question

Postby JamesC » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:49 pm

Eric Driver wrote:A cranked down bushing has a lot of potential wobble-energy stored up, better to have a harder bushing and run it loose, imo - you get better feedback and more stability than a softer bushing cranked down so it can't move so much because it's under pressure.


This is so true and a very important thing to understand. Never use soft bushings tightened down hard as you're much more likely to get speed wobble than loosre trucks with hard bushings
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Re: bushings question

Postby Eric Driver » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:54 pm

Image

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Re: bushings question

Postby Cosmic Bandito » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:55 pm

Longboard set-ups are probably even more rider specific than 'normal' boards so you'll have to resign yourself to a certain amount of bush changing.If you got on with the 95a then 93a will probably feel similar although ive never used Venoms so I'm guessing.
I have played around alot with bushings and have ended up with a mixture of duro's on each truck. Firmer on the back, softer on the front as a general rule.
Using barrels top and bottom will give you a much firmer ride and a faster return to centre than cones.
Taller/shorter bushes alter the geometry of the truck and isn't necesarily a good idea. Holey bushes are interchangable with Bennetts but are generally too big for standard longboard trucks.
Sabre bushings are good. The purples are a good cruise /carve feel. The greens are probably closer to 93a.
You'll probably change your setup as you get more comfortable so Hog Hill will be a good chance to see/try other setups and see whats possible.
Hope that helps. I'm sure any bollocks i'm talking will be swiftly pointed out. :wink:
Last edited by Cosmic Bandito on Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: bushings question

Postby greywolf » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:59 pm

JamesC wrote:
Eric Driver wrote:A cranked down bushing has a lot of potential wobble-energy stored up, better to have a harder bushing and run it loose, imo - you get better feedback and more stability than a softer bushing cranked down so it can't move so much because it's under pressure.


This is so true and a very important thing to understand. Never use soft bushings tightened down hard as you're much more likely to get speed wobble than loosre trucks with hard bushings

Handy tips , thank you !! :)
I have a lot to learn in this area myself !
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Re: bushings question

Postby frankydoodle » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:17 pm

Those sabers are a very turny truck, to turny for a lot of people. By turny i mean looose and its caused by the bushing seat allowing the bushes to move around on the seat rather than the bush being held in a seat like Holeys do. Im as lean as a wippet and when i used saber bushes i had a purple roadside and a Green boardside with Randals. Thats a fairly turny settup and also a popular choice with a lot of the downhill riders in the UK.
Now conicals don't support the truck as much as barrels cos theres less thane so obviously conicals will allow the board to be more turny and leany.
With cupped washers you can tighten the kingpin more without the bush squishing out the sides.
If you use one cupped and one flat washer use the cupped washer BS so it supports the bushing and stops the bushing moveing side to side making for more more stablility.
Id advise Randal 180 42deg trucks with green sabers or green Venoms barrels (which i prefer) top and bottom with a cupped washer BS. Theres also Venom Eliminators that if used with Cupped washers will give even more support but won't allow as much lean.
God its a nightmare, just get some hard saber or venom bushes and see how you go. Please dont use Holey trucks or bushing cos they are crap and a blot on the British engineering landskape.
If you want some saber bushings ive got a few sets that you can have for just some money.
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Re: bushings question

Postby Foul old bob » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:46 pm

At the risk of boosting sales, I like Reflex bushings, loads of urethane good rebound and lots of duros/shapes to tweak around with. Venom Super High Rebound Formula are good too but like Sabres they harden up after a couple of sessions.
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Re: bushings question

Postby Beerday » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:23 am

Simple - sabre bushings for sabre trucks. Purple/purple or purple/green for more stability. Nothing else needed. Oh yeah - flat washers and don't overtighten - use a harder bushing instead.
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Re: bushings question

Postby longboard gav » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:48 pm

shame on you andy turner , i've read all the advice and i'm still none the wiser ,so i'll carry on running all my stuff with what they were supplied with . see you saturday, ..- hope its dry.
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Re: bushings question

Postby bigwavedave » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:16 pm

Andy, green venom/sabre barrels, flat washer. I ran those sabres green boardside and purple road side. You are a bit bigger than me so greens all round. Scrub any new bushings on your griptape first before using them, it will get rid of the release agent used on them. See you Saturday.
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Re: bushings question

Postby andy turner » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:03 pm

Cheers Gents. I have ended up with the green venoms all round, with cup washers top and bottom and so far it rides ok. I've had a few hits down the hill outside my house and its pretty good. different sort of turn to the Holeys but I like them, seem a bit more predictable if that makes sense. cheers for all the advice.... and sorry Gav, I promise to never do it again!!
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Re: bushings question

Postby Leanne » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:26 am

@ Eric, that duro chart's a great find.

Great thread all round, lots of helpful info an' stuff. 8)


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Re: bushings question

Postby Eric Driver » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:34 am

All credit to Boris/BlueB who posted it on PavedWave. I hope it's ok to share it here.
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Re: bushings question

Postby Leanne » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:06 am

ok, so I took the advice given here about higher duro bushings and looser trucks, as opposed to softer, cranked down tight bushings, and the love of my life (my Supercharger) just got even better....I didn't think that was possible! :shock:

I swapped from standard green Bear boardside bushings in my Grizzly's, which were tightened down quite a bit, for some firmer ones, not sure what they are, possibly Reflex, and left them a lot looser. I kept the green Bears roadside though, and the difference is amazing! It still carves wonderfully, though not as twitchy, and the really nice thing is now I can carve much more aggressively at higher speeds. :D

Totally stoked! 8)
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Re: bushings question

Postby At it again » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:02 pm

Seemslike a few longones are getting a good tweaking due to this mint thread. Mine included. Thanks everyone. Top thread ..
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Re: bushings question

Postby Trout01 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:01 pm

Alright guys, does anyone no if you can use Venom SHR Eliminator bushings on my regular trucks? Cheers so much, Keith.
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Re: bushings question

Postby GoR64 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:08 pm

Oof you might struggle with the bushing seats for regular TKP hangers... I can find out for Indy, Tracker or Thunder in a couple days if you like, (let me know which you want to know about) other than that you're on your own, or check with a shop that sells eliminators and TKP trucks.
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Re: bushings question

Postby Trout01 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:18 pm

Thank you, it was in regards to Bullet 140s, it maybe the case that it will not work. The Eliminator plus washer may lift the hanger up in which it may not sit as securely in pivot cup and off set the kingpin? Your input is much appreciated, Cheers Keith
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Re: bushings question

Postby Kamaki » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:55 pm

GoR64 wrote:Oof you might struggle with the bushing seats for regular TKP hangers... I can find out for Indy, Tracker or Thunder in a couple days if you like, (let me know which you want to know about) other than that you're on your own, or check with a shop that sells eliminators and TKP trucks.


Longshot - old post.

Do Tracker Stims or Venom elims fit indys (169) with stock kingpin?

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Re: bushings question

Postby tom.hoffman » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:04 pm

Kamaki wrote:
GoR64 wrote:Oof you might struggle with the bushing seats for regular TKP hangers... I can find out for Indy, Tracker or Thunder in a couple days if you like, (let me know which you want to know about) other than that you're on your own, or check with a shop that sells eliminators and TKP trucks.


Longshot - old post.

Do Tracker Stims or Venom elims fit indys (169) with stock kingpin?

Ta.


Stims/Elims are regular height bottom bushings, so yeah, they should, although you probably want to use a cupped washer with them, which might make it a bit tight on new Indys.
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Re: bushings question

Postby Kamaki » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:12 pm

tom.hoffman wrote:
Kamaki wrote:
GoR64 wrote:Oof you might struggle with the bushing seats for regular TKP hangers... I can find out for Indy, Tracker or Thunder in a couple days if you like, (let me know which you want to know about) other than that you're on your own, or check with a shop that sells eliminators and TKP trucks.


Longshot - old post.

Do Tracker Stims or Venom elims fit indys (169) with stock kingpin?

Ta.


Stims/Elims are regular height bottom bushings, so yeah, they should, although you probably want to use a cupped washer with them, which might make it a bit tight on new Indys.
Thanks, for the info.

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